Barkha Dutt, Monday February 8, 2010, Mumbai
I feel hurt when people question my Indianness, says Shah Rukh Khan in an exclusive interview to NDTV's Barkha Dutt. He says despite all the success, he still feels powerless at times.
Here's the transcript of the interview:
Barkha Dutt: For the last week or more, Shah Rukh Khan has had India's admiration for standing up unequivocally to the politics of intimidation, even when most hurtfully his patriotism was questioned. To talk about these difficult last days and much much more, we are joined by SRK himself. You are smiling...
SRK: I am smiling because the last time I spoke with you, I wanted to do a fun interview with you. I had sent you a tweet saying that we must do a fun interview, which you have not done, I have not done.
Barkha Dutt: Things are not very funny around here...
SRK: They are not funny...as we were just speaking, that was the last time I tweeted you and I am back and things have changed so much. No fun interview this time too...
Barkha Dutt: We will have our time...but how is it to be back home?
SRK: It is very nice. I was very worried for everyone and when you are not in the house, you hear too many things and you know they are exaggerated but you still worry. But I am happy to be back. I was very happy being there. It was very nice and cold. Went to NASDAQ, did loads of stuff thinking that India has made me so proud and I am a part of all this good stuff happening for the country. And, strangely, you are also faced with the dichotomy that this is also a part of what is happening to the country.
Barkha Dutt: And people are questioning - there you are representing India at the NASDAQ and people are questioning your Indianness, your patriotism.
SRK: And that is one thing no Indian should be questioned on because you don't have to ask and you don't have to explain why you have to love your motherland. How you are and I am, strangely very proud, strangely but naturally, that my dad was a freedom fighter and I don't have very many principles, I am a movie star...(laughs)
Barkha Dutt: You are being self-deprecating as usual...
SRK: No, but you are self-centred, you do your job, you want a comfortable life. You want to have a good life, you want to do entertainment...Maybe I have made compromises in my life and I will never deny that, but I know that I have been a good citizen, I pay my taxes, I try to be okay law-wise and then suddenly you are subjected to questioning of this form and I get very emotional about the things that people say...because my parents gave me nothing else. I am very proud of the Tamrapatra that my father has and I feel very special, especially with the people of my age group because my father was a freedom fighter, he gave me this country. So, I have this strange positive chip on my shoulder that I really like this. And when somebody asks and says that you are not a nice guy and you are not patriotic enough, I find it very strange.
Barkha Dutt: One of your tweets said that you are back and you are busy proving that you are Indian. You were being sarcastic. You know that you don't really have to prove this to 99 per cent of this country. There is that one per cent fringe but....
SRK: Yeah, and it is so strange. I mean everyone knows that Barkha, everybody believes that we cannot start describing one man, two men, ten people's actions to a certain country...and there is nothing wrong. I was watching one of your programmes...I think Mr Pankaj Pachauri...and he was saying something and there were some actors where one of them said that we have some issues with the country and we shouldn't say anything good about it. I say whatever issue we have, let's kill those guys and hang them for troubling India. Let's not even say that we will play cricket with them. Let's not be so insensitive like that. Even if we are being sarcastic, or angry or disturbed and say make that person the captain of your team. That is not right for people who have lost their lives to hear evil or sarcasm or anger or a passionate outburst from anyone and those people should be punished, but the rest of us meet them all over the world...your channel is carrying something about forming relationships and building ties and buses are going to the other side...
Barkha Dutt: The governments are about to begin talking officially...
SRK: Just now? So why is it such a...and sports, every time I know this question has arisen...two years ago they all came and played here...there were no issues...Shoaib Akhtar came and took a lot of wickets...we lost badly to Mumbai Indians...the thing is that sports and culture, these are the things which bind us together. Now those things are being questioned, that is a little sad.
Barkha Dutt: I remember meeting you after 26/11 and I remember how angry you were...it took you a while to come out and speak because you were disturbed by what had happened. Now it is your position on 26/11 which is being questioned. You are being accused of not being sensitive to those who died in 26/11.
SRK: I didn't see it like that...but yeah...
Barkha Dutt: I am not saying that...that is what the people accusing you are saying.
SRK: I think any of us, normal people, who may not have the chance of talking about their patriotism, also how can any one have two different points of view on what happened on 26/11? Naturally we can't have it, we would never have it...because we all know what happened was totally wrong...and here I was trying to, being a Muslim and being an Indian, was trying to say that we should not over-react. And I was saying exactly the same thing actually. Let's not take the side of those people because they are bad human beings but it does not mean that the rest are also like this. Let's try to keep some kind of equilibrium, some kind of sanity...obviously when the government from the other side says that all those people were not from here...those denials are all a part of politics and now it is all coming around and there will be international pressures and it is exactly what I said then that I am saying now. And suddenly on the eve of the release of your film, it starts getting even more vulnerable and disturbing and then there will be the other point of view that this was for publicity...
Barkha Dutt: I have been accused of having a tie-up with you to promote this film...people accusing you are utterly bigoted and revolting...so in some way it is being read that I have a My Name Is Khan (MNIK) tie-up...
SRK: (...laughs...)
Barkha Dutt: But no, more seriously, look back at this week. Did you consider, did you contemplate at any point that this is not worth the fuss...let me go and say sorry.
SRK: As I sit here and talk, I think that it is not worth the fuss, day before yesterday I thought, since the day it started I thought it was not worth the fuss. When I say this I say this with a lot of humility that I am not confrontational about this. I am not scared to be confrontational about any issue that needs confrontation. But this does not need any confrontation. Is it worth the fuss, man...? I will give you an example...If certain things happen with my earlier films, certain people said we don't like this work...we said why, he said my daughter is teased when she uses the word baba...so I felt very bad and I said remove it and everybody told me not to back down but I said I am not backing down. I think if somebody's child feels bad, let it be. There was a set of Muslim people who thought that I had said something wrong in the Marjani song. And I said I didn't mean it, I explained the song to them and I apologised to them...I am not being confrontational. In this case there should have been no fuss. What is the fuss about? And again I say with all humility that we should have good relationships with everybody. And if I have taken the name of Pakistan or any other country what is the harm in it? I have not understood this. So that is why when people tell me are you going to retract, I don't know what to retract? So, here on your show I will say -- let's not be friendly to any country in the world. It's okay, thing over, let my film release with happiness.
Barkha Dutt: I hope Bal Thackeray is watching this interview.
SRK: It's okay, I will say whatever they want me to say or retract. Even if I say this in all seriousness, will that change the fact that we should be friendly to all the neighbouring nations? Who am I? In that programme they said why didn't I buy a Pakistani player? Razzaq...he injured his wrist. At 12 O'clock I had to rush to town...I am not talking about Pak players as from Pakistan. I am talking about them as players. Even if I didn't choose them, it was not based on the fact that they were from Pak but it was based on merit. My team has been losing. I can't take them on an emotional basis.
Barkha Dutt: So are you saying that out of all 12 Pak players, you only found Razzaq wanting on the basis of merit?
SRK: See they are going to have some thoughts now on T20 and at the space we are lying in, I have to go by some thought. We thought it was a secret but six months back people knew that we are trying to buy him. I personally requested so many teams not to buy him because I really needed him but he broke his wrist. There is an issue today if you try to take a Pak player in your team.
Barkha Dutt: Now, what do you mean...this part of your statement did not get enough media attention. There is an issue...what is the issue?
SRK: This is it. I have only said it and the world has broken all around me. So if you are sitting as a businessman you will be skeptical about your choices.
As a team owner, you start thinking should we play or not..there might be some problem...no...good sense prevails but there was a diktat that it shouldn't be allowed.. Australian players? I don't know! Why get into a mess?(Pange mein kyun ghusu?) {vacillating between the two stands..should I or shouldn't I?}
Barkha Dutt: Do you think that's what happened?
SRK- 100 percent!
Barkha Dutt: Do you think the franchisees somewhere decided subconsciously that God knows what happens when we buy a Pak player, koi aur jhanjhat na pad jaaye?
SRK: There were many issues, that of visas, NOCs, security and the main issue was whether they will be allowed to play in Mumbai or not. It is not allowed here.
Barkha Dutt: By whom?
SRK: By groups like the Shiv Sena. They might just say No. Even though they played the last time, you can never be sure. And you are saying that this is an unconscious decision. It is conscious, that you decide, let's take someone else. But I was very keen. My captain and my coach wanted a certain player but it was unfortunate that he hurt himself. We were very clear...the only player we wanted was Abdul Razzaq.
I think they spoke with him also and then he gave an interview and we spoke with him. There are rules that you can't buy him out of auction. So, he was brought into the auction...he hurt himself and he went away and we couldn't take him, so we took the next best choice...or whatever we felt was the nicest thing to do. I was just trying to explain on Dr. Prannoy Roy's show that it is an issue that people have to consider these things...it's a big business, stakes are high. Just me mentioning that there are these things has resulted in such problems for the last seven days.
Barkha Dutt: But there are people who think you made these nice statements about Pakistan...that there should be neighbourly relations and people-to-people contact should be there. But when it came to the actual bidding, how come you didn't want other than one player. My question to you is, did all these other factors that you've spoken about...the fact there could be complications, stop you?
SRK: There are only personal merit thoughts about each player...the second best choice that we always had was Shane Bond or Roach. I think we wanted a pace bowler...we wanted a top pace bowler who could bowl over 145/143 kind of a thought. That was very clear... I'm giving you the strategy of my team.
Barkha Dutt: That's okay...larger picture.
SRK: Larger picture yeah...so we wanted a pace bowler very clearly. With that we had one player to choose from, we had just one slot so we went for it...and beyond that there was no decision. I hadn't gone for the auction because I was there till 3.30 in the morning...and I had some work for the film. So, I got back and we didn't consider any nationality while deciding the players.
Barkha Dutt: What do you think the others did? Why do you think nobody got picked up?
SRK: I don't know, I can't speak for others but you and I could think it could be because of this. But it would not be right for me to think about it. Because when it had come down to the auction, everyone was a little unfriendly. We were like no no no, we won't tell and everybody would do their own thing. I'm not trying to say that Shah Rukh is saying nice things...but when I'm thinking about it...maybe just logically thinking about it...if I have a problem tomorrow, I would think to myself, lelenge kya yaar phir?
Barkha Dutt: High risk.
SRK: It's a high risk thing and it's unfortunate and if that makes me look like a coward, so be it. But at least I spoke about it. I may not have taken a player, but I spoke about it and I stick to it and I believe in it. I totally believe that anyone who is not related to terrorism or bad deeds from any nation, we cannot club them together...I kept repeating this...then by that logic we should not take anyone from Goa...because there is a Goan gentleman...sorry I should not be saying gentleman, there was a Goan who raped a nine-year-old girl from Russia. If suppose I think that is anti-national...if I think that you have raped a nine-year-old little girl and that it is hugely anti-national...that we should not have anyone from Goa also.
Barkha Dutt: Or Australia.
SRK: Or Australia...so if things like this are going to be, then how are we not looking at ourselves...haven't we done some corporate crimes all over the world? So does that mean all Indians are corporate cheats? There have been bad guys, I don't know about the London bombing? There was one person who got burnt, if I'm not mistaken? And his brother was in Australia and some SIM card thing happened but he was in it. So all Indians are terrorists?
Barkha Dutt: The Glasgow bombing, Yes.
SRK: And it is amazingly ironic because maybe I am brown...and maybe my name is Khan, so in America I would be treated like this anyway so that sort of irks me a bit. I followed the rule but yeah it irks me a bit that arre yaar yahan pe yey problem ho gaya...suddenly I'm clubbed as part of a group. I'm part of that group, I'm sure all of Indians are clubbed in that group when we travel abroad and we don't like it. So how come we don't mind them...
Barkha Dutt: So the least we can do is not label other people?
SRK: We should not label because we don't like the label...I've been frisked, I've been stopped at airports. It's not a big issue but na ho to better hai...instead of having to do all this...there are two ways to look at it: oh mere saath hota hai, mai sab ke saath karunga, but I don't think that's very mature. I don't think it's logical and I don't think it's democratic.
What SRK said was, “If I was not in such a vulnerable position of being a movie star, I am going to show power. I am a thinking bloody Indian. I will show power then.” Why has NDTV headlined it as, "I am a bloody good Indian"? One secular individual (Berkha Dutt) trying to save another secular individual's (SRK) arse?
http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/i_am_a_bloody_good_indian_srk.php?page=1
Here's the transcript of the interview:
Barkha Dutt: For the last week or more, Shah Rukh Khan has had India's admiration for standing up unequivocally to the politics of intimidation, even when most hurtfully his patriotism was questioned. To talk about these difficult last days and much much more, we are joined by SRK himself. You are smiling...
SRK: I am smiling because the last time I spoke with you, I wanted to do a fun interview with you. I had sent you a tweet saying that we must do a fun interview, which you have not done, I have not done.
Barkha Dutt: Things are not very funny around here...
SRK: They are not funny...as we were just speaking, that was the last time I tweeted you and I am back and things have changed so much. No fun interview this time too...
Barkha Dutt: We will have our time...but how is it to be back home?
SRK: It is very nice. I was very worried for everyone and when you are not in the house, you hear too many things and you know they are exaggerated but you still worry. But I am happy to be back. I was very happy being there. It was very nice and cold. Went to NASDAQ, did loads of stuff thinking that India has made me so proud and I am a part of all this good stuff happening for the country. And, strangely, you are also faced with the dichotomy that this is also a part of what is happening to the country.
Barkha Dutt: And people are questioning - there you are representing India at the NASDAQ and people are questioning your Indianness, your patriotism.
SRK: And that is one thing no Indian should be questioned on because you don't have to ask and you don't have to explain why you have to love your motherland. How you are and I am, strangely very proud, strangely but naturally, that my dad was a freedom fighter and I don't have very many principles, I am a movie star...(laughs)
Barkha Dutt: You are being self-deprecating as usual...
SRK: No, but you are self-centred, you do your job, you want a comfortable life. You want to have a good life, you want to do entertainment...Maybe I have made compromises in my life and I will never deny that, but I know that I have been a good citizen, I pay my taxes, I try to be okay law-wise and then suddenly you are subjected to questioning of this form and I get very emotional about the things that people say...because my parents gave me nothing else. I am very proud of the Tamrapatra that my father has and I feel very special, especially with the people of my age group because my father was a freedom fighter, he gave me this country. So, I have this strange positive chip on my shoulder that I really like this. And when somebody asks and says that you are not a nice guy and you are not patriotic enough, I find it very strange.
Barkha Dutt: One of your tweets said that you are back and you are busy proving that you are Indian. You were being sarcastic. You know that you don't really have to prove this to 99 per cent of this country. There is that one per cent fringe but....
SRK: Yeah, and it is so strange. I mean everyone knows that Barkha, everybody believes that we cannot start describing one man, two men, ten people's actions to a certain country...and there is nothing wrong. I was watching one of your programmes...I think Mr Pankaj Pachauri...and he was saying something and there were some actors where one of them said that we have some issues with the country and we shouldn't say anything good about it. I say whatever issue we have, let's kill those guys and hang them for troubling India. Let's not even say that we will play cricket with them. Let's not be so insensitive like that. Even if we are being sarcastic, or angry or disturbed and say make that person the captain of your team. That is not right for people who have lost their lives to hear evil or sarcasm or anger or a passionate outburst from anyone and those people should be punished, but the rest of us meet them all over the world...your channel is carrying something about forming relationships and building ties and buses are going to the other side...
Barkha Dutt: The governments are about to begin talking officially...
SRK: Just now? So why is it such a...and sports, every time I know this question has arisen...two years ago they all came and played here...there were no issues...Shoaib Akhtar came and took a lot of wickets...we lost badly to Mumbai Indians...the thing is that sports and culture, these are the things which bind us together. Now those things are being questioned, that is a little sad.
Barkha Dutt: I remember meeting you after 26/11 and I remember how angry you were...it took you a while to come out and speak because you were disturbed by what had happened. Now it is your position on 26/11 which is being questioned. You are being accused of not being sensitive to those who died in 26/11.
SRK: I didn't see it like that...but yeah...
Barkha Dutt: I am not saying that...that is what the people accusing you are saying.
SRK: I think any of us, normal people, who may not have the chance of talking about their patriotism, also how can any one have two different points of view on what happened on 26/11? Naturally we can't have it, we would never have it...because we all know what happened was totally wrong...and here I was trying to, being a Muslim and being an Indian, was trying to say that we should not over-react. And I was saying exactly the same thing actually. Let's not take the side of those people because they are bad human beings but it does not mean that the rest are also like this. Let's try to keep some kind of equilibrium, some kind of sanity...obviously when the government from the other side says that all those people were not from here...those denials are all a part of politics and now it is all coming around and there will be international pressures and it is exactly what I said then that I am saying now. And suddenly on the eve of the release of your film, it starts getting even more vulnerable and disturbing and then there will be the other point of view that this was for publicity...
Barkha Dutt: I have been accused of having a tie-up with you to promote this film...people accusing you are utterly bigoted and revolting...so in some way it is being read that I have a My Name Is Khan (MNIK) tie-up...
SRK: (...laughs...)
Barkha Dutt: But no, more seriously, look back at this week. Did you consider, did you contemplate at any point that this is not worth the fuss...let me go and say sorry.
SRK: As I sit here and talk, I think that it is not worth the fuss, day before yesterday I thought, since the day it started I thought it was not worth the fuss. When I say this I say this with a lot of humility that I am not confrontational about this. I am not scared to be confrontational about any issue that needs confrontation. But this does not need any confrontation. Is it worth the fuss, man...? I will give you an example...If certain things happen with my earlier films, certain people said we don't like this work...we said why, he said my daughter is teased when she uses the word baba...so I felt very bad and I said remove it and everybody told me not to back down but I said I am not backing down. I think if somebody's child feels bad, let it be. There was a set of Muslim people who thought that I had said something wrong in the Marjani song. And I said I didn't mean it, I explained the song to them and I apologised to them...I am not being confrontational. In this case there should have been no fuss. What is the fuss about? And again I say with all humility that we should have good relationships with everybody. And if I have taken the name of Pakistan or any other country what is the harm in it? I have not understood this. So that is why when people tell me are you going to retract, I don't know what to retract? So, here on your show I will say -- let's not be friendly to any country in the world. It's okay, thing over, let my film release with happiness.
Barkha Dutt: I hope Bal Thackeray is watching this interview.
SRK: It's okay, I will say whatever they want me to say or retract. Even if I say this in all seriousness, will that change the fact that we should be friendly to all the neighbouring nations? Who am I? In that programme they said why didn't I buy a Pakistani player? Razzaq...he injured his wrist. At 12 O'clock I had to rush to town...I am not talking about Pak players as from Pakistan. I am talking about them as players. Even if I didn't choose them, it was not based on the fact that they were from Pak but it was based on merit. My team has been losing. I can't take them on an emotional basis.
Barkha Dutt: So are you saying that out of all 12 Pak players, you only found Razzaq wanting on the basis of merit?
SRK: See they are going to have some thoughts now on T20 and at the space we are lying in, I have to go by some thought. We thought it was a secret but six months back people knew that we are trying to buy him. I personally requested so many teams not to buy him because I really needed him but he broke his wrist. There is an issue today if you try to take a Pak player in your team.
Barkha Dutt: Now, what do you mean...this part of your statement did not get enough media attention. There is an issue...what is the issue?
SRK: This is it. I have only said it and the world has broken all around me. So if you are sitting as a businessman you will be skeptical about your choices.
As a team owner, you start thinking should we play or not..there might be some problem...no...good sense prevails but there was a diktat that it shouldn't be allowed.. Australian players? I don't know! Why get into a mess?(Pange mein kyun ghusu?) {vacillating between the two stands..should I or shouldn't I?}
Barkha Dutt: Do you think that's what happened?
SRK- 100 percent!
Barkha Dutt: Do you think the franchisees somewhere decided subconsciously that God knows what happens when we buy a Pak player, koi aur jhanjhat na pad jaaye?
SRK: There were many issues, that of visas, NOCs, security and the main issue was whether they will be allowed to play in Mumbai or not. It is not allowed here.
Barkha Dutt: By whom?
SRK: By groups like the Shiv Sena. They might just say No. Even though they played the last time, you can never be sure. And you are saying that this is an unconscious decision. It is conscious, that you decide, let's take someone else. But I was very keen. My captain and my coach wanted a certain player but it was unfortunate that he hurt himself. We were very clear...the only player we wanted was Abdul Razzaq.
I think they spoke with him also and then he gave an interview and we spoke with him. There are rules that you can't buy him out of auction. So, he was brought into the auction...he hurt himself and he went away and we couldn't take him, so we took the next best choice...or whatever we felt was the nicest thing to do. I was just trying to explain on Dr. Prannoy Roy's show that it is an issue that people have to consider these things...it's a big business, stakes are high. Just me mentioning that there are these things has resulted in such problems for the last seven days.
Barkha Dutt: But there are people who think you made these nice statements about Pakistan...that there should be neighbourly relations and people-to-people contact should be there. But when it came to the actual bidding, how come you didn't want other than one player. My question to you is, did all these other factors that you've spoken about...the fact there could be complications, stop you?
SRK: There are only personal merit thoughts about each player...the second best choice that we always had was Shane Bond or Roach. I think we wanted a pace bowler...we wanted a top pace bowler who could bowl over 145/143 kind of a thought. That was very clear... I'm giving you the strategy of my team.
Barkha Dutt: That's okay...larger picture.
SRK: Larger picture yeah...so we wanted a pace bowler very clearly. With that we had one player to choose from, we had just one slot so we went for it...and beyond that there was no decision. I hadn't gone for the auction because I was there till 3.30 in the morning...and I had some work for the film. So, I got back and we didn't consider any nationality while deciding the players.
Barkha Dutt: What do you think the others did? Why do you think nobody got picked up?
SRK: I don't know, I can't speak for others but you and I could think it could be because of this. But it would not be right for me to think about it. Because when it had come down to the auction, everyone was a little unfriendly. We were like no no no, we won't tell and everybody would do their own thing. I'm not trying to say that Shah Rukh is saying nice things...but when I'm thinking about it...maybe just logically thinking about it...if I have a problem tomorrow, I would think to myself, lelenge kya yaar phir?
Barkha Dutt: High risk.
SRK: It's a high risk thing and it's unfortunate and if that makes me look like a coward, so be it. But at least I spoke about it. I may not have taken a player, but I spoke about it and I stick to it and I believe in it. I totally believe that anyone who is not related to terrorism or bad deeds from any nation, we cannot club them together...I kept repeating this...then by that logic we should not take anyone from Goa...because there is a Goan gentleman...sorry I should not be saying gentleman, there was a Goan who raped a nine-year-old girl from Russia. If suppose I think that is anti-national...if I think that you have raped a nine-year-old little girl and that it is hugely anti-national...that we should not have anyone from Goa also.
Barkha Dutt: Or Australia.
SRK: Or Australia...so if things like this are going to be, then how are we not looking at ourselves...haven't we done some corporate crimes all over the world? So does that mean all Indians are corporate cheats? There have been bad guys, I don't know about the London bombing? There was one person who got burnt, if I'm not mistaken? And his brother was in Australia and some SIM card thing happened but he was in it. So all Indians are terrorists?
Barkha Dutt: The Glasgow bombing, Yes.
SRK: And it is amazingly ironic because maybe I am brown...and maybe my name is Khan, so in America I would be treated like this anyway so that sort of irks me a bit. I followed the rule but yeah it irks me a bit that arre yaar yahan pe yey problem ho gaya...suddenly I'm clubbed as part of a group. I'm part of that group, I'm sure all of Indians are clubbed in that group when we travel abroad and we don't like it. So how come we don't mind them...
Barkha Dutt: So the least we can do is not label other people?
SRK: We should not label because we don't like the label...I've been frisked, I've been stopped at airports. It's not a big issue but na ho to better hai...instead of having to do all this...there are two ways to look at it: oh mere saath hota hai, mai sab ke saath karunga, but I don't think that's very mature. I don't think it's logical and I don't think it's democratic.
What SRK said was, “If I was not in such a vulnerable position of being a movie star, I am going to show power. I am a thinking bloody Indian. I will show power then.” Why has NDTV headlined it as, "I am a bloody good Indian"? One secular individual (Berkha Dutt) trying to save another secular individual's (SRK) arse?
http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/i_am_a_bloody_good_indian_srk.php?page=1
http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/as_a_movie_star_im_vulnerable_srk.php
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